The American Mind

This guy would have never survived World War II.

Um. Dude?

Easy for you to say from a computer in Allenton, that’s all i can say.

Can we please drop the comparisons between Iraq and WWII? They don’t apply. Don’t. Do. Not. Apply.

When we were attacked by Japan, we retaliated against Japan. When we were attacked by Saudis, we…oh.

For the last time–people opposed to the war in Iraq ARE NOT OPPOSED TO WAR IN GENERAL. I know that’s hard to understand when you think the war in Iraq is somehow justified, but cripes.

“Easy for you to say from a computer in Allenton, that’s all i can say.”

Ah, the chickenhawk argument. Nice non sequitur.

“Can we please drop the comparisons between Iraq and WWII? They don’t apply. Don’t. Do. Not. Apply.”

Nope, since you offer no reason for me to drop it. Both Iraq and WWII are/were tough, difficult wars. WWII was more difficult (think Iwo Jima) yet the public didn’t throw up their hands and say, “I quit. These Japs are too tough.”

“When we were attacked by Japan, we retaliated against Japan. When we were attacked by Saudis, we…oh.”

We forget Afghanistan and the Taliban so soon? And there were a few Egyptians tossed in the Sep. 11 bunch. Don’t forget that.

“For the last time–people opposed to the war in Iraq ARE NOT OPPOSED TO WAR IN GENERAL. I know that’s hard to understand when you think the war in Iraq is somehow justified, but cripes.”

You’ve been arguing with Jeff too much. I didn’t claim that. In fact, even I have been opposed to war. For example, that Kosovo thing was a waste.

Ah, the chickenhawk argument. Nice non sequitur.

And what about “This guy would have never survived World War II” wasn’t a non sequitur?

Both Iraq and WWII are/were tough, difficult wars. WWII was more difficult (think Iwo Jima) yet the public didn’t throw up their hands and say, “I quit. These Japs are too tough.”

The differences: WWII was a just war to fight, Iraq isn’t (i understand that we disagree there, but try to see my perspective. Also, while i think the Iraq war is unjust and illegal, i also believe that we broke it, we bought it, and have mixed feelings regarding whether or not we should stay).

Also, there was plenty of reason to not quit against Japan and Germany because it was a just war to fight. Iraq? There are plenty of reasons to keep fighting there, too, but the fundamental difference there (from my viewpoint–again, i’m sure you disagree) is that the United States made the world less safe by conducting a war of aggression against Iraq, and now, if Iraq is left in shambles by a withdrawing USA, any aggression against us by Iraq-bred terrorists is partially our fault because we have given terrorists, in their heads, a just motivation for attacking us–an unprovoked war of aggression (because–say it with me–IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE 9/11).

(Please note, y’all, that i’ve heard all the pro-war rebuttals to the points i’m making, and i don’t buy any of them, so save yer breath. All i’m doing is illustrating how, in my view, WWII/Iraq comparisons are disingenuous.)

We forget Afghanistan and the Taliban so soon? And there were a few Egyptians tossed in the Sep. 11 bunch. Don’t forget that.

Oh, i haven’t forgotten, and we were right to invade Afghanistan and dethrone the (currently resurgent) Taliban, but, sheesh, in the midst of a military operation already being led against nations that supposedly something to do with 9/11, don’t you think it was odd that we NOT ONCE glanced over at the Saudi government and asked, “hey, guys–wtf?” I’m not saying automatically attack a nation because of the actions of a few of its citizens, but at least ask the frickin’ questions, ya know? I’m not satisfied we did, and if you’re at all familiar with Bush/Saudi ties, you can guess why i think that is.

And by the way–an observation: did you notice what nationality you didn’t cite when listing countries and nationailities involved in 9/11? Yup–Iraq.

You’ve been arguing with Jeff too much. I didn’t claim that. In fact, even I have been opposed to war. For example, that Kosovo thing was a waste.

Fair enough, although i hope you’ll understand why your “this guy would have never lasted in WWII” comment would lead me to that conclusion, given the differences i see in the two wars.

And you’ll forgive me if i’m not shocked that you opposed a war fought by a Democratic president.

Um, Sean?

WWII would have been over by now. Do you think we’ve achieved as much in Iraq as we achieved in two global theatres during WWII?

“Do you think we’ve achieved as much in Iraq as we achieved in two global theatres during WWII?”

No. Which shows every war is different.

DJ,

“Can we please drop the comparisons between Iraq and WWII? They don’t apply. Don’t. Do. Not. Apply.”

No we can not drop comparisions which are real and make 100% perfect sense to make.

The comparisons of Iraq and Pearl Harbor alone make comparisons of Iraq and WW2 correct.

P.S. Don’t you have to go off somewhere and get some Tax Benefits that you will not receive DJ?

Unless of course you are a lying Liberal that can’t back up his lying statement:

“I never received a benefit from President Bush’s tax cuts.”

I mean how can anyone debate you on any subject when you are already exposed here as a liar DJ?

Chet wrote,

“WWII would have been over by now. ”

Oh really? Tell that to our military still stationed in Germany that WW2 is over by now. rofl!

Sean wrote,

“In fact, even I have been opposed to war. For example, that Kosovo thing was a waste”

Wow you say that as if you are speaking from the standpoint of a conservative.

I didn’t know that conservatives

A) Didn’t believe in the rule of law
B) Opposed the death penalty
C) Believed that Politics doesn’t end at the water’s edge
D) Supported Illegal Immigration and wanted more of it to happen along with universal amnesty

And that’s just a few of your outrageously liberal belief system.

You are not speaking from any extreme right side of the spectrum to be able to use the phrase, “EVEN I”

You are much further to the left than Michele Malkin, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Ingraham, and so many countless others..

And most certainly further to the left than myself, and I support leaving politics at the water’s edge. I supported former President Clinton’s foreign policy because it is the right thing to do to leave politics out of it.

Dj wrote,
“I’m not saying automatically attack a nation because of the actions of a few of its citizens, but at least ask the frickin’ questions, ya know? ”

What are you saying DJ?

Because you are not making any sense at all. It’s like a lot of gibberish being tossed around in order for you to feel comfortable about not support our President of the United States.

The facts don’t support your assertion that we’ve done NOTHING, not even SPOKEN with Saudi Arabia regarding terrorism.

President Bush has met with and our foreign intelligence has guided Saudi Arabia on a path of anti-terrorism instead of pro terrorism.

Saudi Arabia’s government felt sympathy for us on 9/11 (which is a lot more than can be said about Saddam Hussein’s Iraq).

Saudi Arabia has since helped us capture Al Queda members and track down their financing.

What more should be done if you don’t believe (Thank God) that America should obliterate Saudi Arabia off the map?

I would much prefer going after Terrorists rather than going after governments that have clearly shown an interest in helping us and becoming our allies on the war on terror.

Now.. Has Saudi Arabia done everything? No. But, they have done plenty to indicate that it would be like shooting yourself in the foot if we treated them like enemies.

FRANCE has been more of an enemy to U.S. policy than Saudi Arabia has in the recent years.

http://archive.gulfnews.com/region/Saudi_Arabia/10084291.html

Read the above article

DJ the Liar: “I never got a benefit from President Bush’s tax cuts.”

The above link takes you to an article in which Saudi Arabia is trying to influence their school children away from Jihadist, Extremist Islam.

This is an important article, because a few short years ago the Government was not willing to take enough steps in this direction.

President Bush met with Saudi Arabia on this subject over the years multiple times.

This was an important set of discussions from President Bush to the Saudi Royal Family.

It appears that President Bush may be making some headway here.

So, to pretend in your sick and twisted fantasy land where President Bush and not Al Queda is America’s enemy,

here’s an article which clearly exposes DJ has yet again a liar.

Perhaps it was a nervous breakdown…or perhaps it was an honest reflection on an administration that has never shown the competence to fight this war accurately from the get go.

If you want to compare wars Iraq honestly has to be compared to Vietnam, after Tet. Once the NVA were given a resounding defeat following their ill advised (militarily) Tet offensive US forces never again faced a NVA/Viet Cong force in strength greater than a battalion. The NVA strategy became one of a war of attrition, a willingness to take much higher casaulties against those they inflicted knowing full well each American death chipped away at the political resolve to continue the war.

The danger with our failed foreign policy and military strategy in Iraq is that the feared communism domino effect that never materialized after the fall of South Vietnam has a better chance of happening with the potenital Balkinization of Iraq into a Sunni, Kurd and Shia faction. If this happens, a Shite cresecent would develop ranging from Iran, through parts of former Iraq on into parts of Syria and Lebanon and up into Azerbaijan, all controlled by a nuclear tipped militant Islamic theocracy. We’ve already emboldened Teheren to the point where they feel strong enough to offer a mutual defense treaty with the Arab states (lest we forget that Iran is mostly Perisan). That is the current roll of the US and EU. No one is going to grab that now but continued failure will start to raise questions about the US’s capability to provide the protection we promise.

Is it time to cut and run from Iraq? Absolutely not, leaving now is more dangerous than it was to go in in the first place. But staying the course with this failed policy is pointless as well. Once again, like Vietnam (I suggest reading A Rumor of War to get a first hand account of the futility of our strategy there) we control nothing but the bases our patrols issue out of. These patrols cover the same ground, being attacked by a variety of ambushes and then return back to their bases, sometimes intact, sometimes minus a few unit members. Nothing gained, much lost.

The Bushies, advised by the Neoconistas, have screwed the pooch on this one bigtime, FUBAR is an understatement. Other than hanging the ‘Mission Accomplished’ banner on the Abraham Lincoln correctly they have pretty much failed at everything else about this war.

The biggest shame is that it took the mid term elections and the Iraq Study Group report to give Republican and some Democrat politicians the political cover to finally come out and speak their minds and admit that the current administration has horribly failed us.