The American Mind

Unbelievable! Just for one moment, to think that the ‘Democratic Leadership’ appears busier trying to prevent a positive result in the war, than to complete the task that they ALSO voted on 5 years ago. So is this really an “anti-war” theme, or an “anti-Bush” theme? Unfortunately, now with their “anti-war” hype, they have managed to repeat history. We’re now in 1967 again, with anti-war being the slogan-du-jour for gaining political capital. Shame on them all. We have the strongest and most capable military, but the weakest and least capable Congress.

Haven’t they learned? Wars are not won on the battlefield; they are won through a myriad of diplomatic, economic, and military policies. The military can only win battles, not wars. So while our soldiers, airmen, sailors, and Marines are sweating and bleeding through their efforts to do their part in this war, we have politicians who are afraid to get their hands dirty.

So, 10 years from now, where will we be? Where will our sons and daughters be? Will they live the next ten years in fear of being blown up by international terrorist organizations looking for payback for having left Iraq and the region unstable? Those are the questions we must ask. We live today for the future of America, not for present contempt.

There are tough decisions to be made, but make no mistake, leaving the region before the task is complete will only bring more harm, danger, and tougher decisions in our future.

What’s not complete, Tony? There’s a functional Iraqi government with an army and a police force and everything. Remember all those elections they had?

We’ve installed a predominantly Shiite government, making it a pretty hostile place for Al-Queda terrorists, who are universally Sunni.

All I hear from you guys on the right-wing side is how great things are going in Iraq, and how the trouble there is really just a media fiction. So what the hell are we still doing there? What’s left to do? Maintaining law and order is the job of the Iraqi government, not Americans. Enough American blood has been spilled over there, and we’re going broke from the cost. Enough is enough. We’re done over there.

“Haven’t they learned? Wars are not won on the battlefield; they are won through a myriad of diplomatic, economic, and military policies. The military can only win battles, not wars.”

The Bush administration apparently hasn’t. The GAO released a highly critical report of our reconstruction efforts and concluded that our government wasn’t ready from the beginning to rebuild Iraq in an efficient and competent process.

This is Vietnam again- I’m with you on that one. We’re attempting to prop up a government that is corrupt and is unwilling/unable to stand up and take the reins.

Given Bush’s blunders, your surprise and mock outrage that the House is attempting to establish means of oversight is laughable.

A note of interest… is our country less important than right-wing or left-wing ideals. Remember that for our policies to be implemented, it takes our House AND Senate votes as well as the President. This finger pointing towards Bush alone is absurd.

Lets learn from history… we were in Germany for 40 years after WWII to rebuild and secure it… Korea, well we’ve been there for over 60 years. Japan, we’re still there protecting it and the region. So then, based on your arguments, we should pull out of Korea, Japan, and Europe. As a matter of fact, why don’t we just pull everyone in and close the border and create a policy of isolationism…tucking our heads in the sand like a bunch of ostriches.

Chet – Andy, the Iraqi governments’ police and military are inexperienced, and struggling to organize themselves under foreign influences, differences in culture, and hostility. Lets examine closely the threat in the region… its not the Iraqis, but rather foreign fighters, mercenaries, people imported to prevent what we are trying to help in. For example, Iran! I agree that formal milestones that are feasible and achievable must be enforced…but those shouldn’t be established by our House or even a general. State Department should have a committee that works that.

Andy, you talk of corrupt governments, which one isn’t corrupt? If ours wasn’t, lobbying wouldn’t have any effect on policy…ummm Maybe a balance of peace is more important right now.

If someone has the solution to complete the job, then present your plan, but don’t just sit there and just point fingers or complain. The solution though is not to leave and run away from our responsibilities.

Mark my words, pulling out with the job incomplete will only lead us to many more years of problems.

Lets learn from history… we were in Germany for 40 years after WWII to rebuild and secure it…

Bullshit it took 40 years to secure Germany. Germany was secured in a manner of months, and our remaining presence there was token – not an army of hundreds of thousands.

So then, based on your arguments, we should pull out of Korea, Japan, and Europe.

We use those countries as staging areas and to maintain a worldwide presence, not because Korea, Japan, and Europe are territories under our occupation. And 100 soldiers a month aren’t dying in the streets of Japan. But, you know, don’t let reality stop you from making obtuse comparisons.

Lets examine closely the threat in the region… its not the Iraqis, but rather foreign fighters, mercenaries, people imported to prevent what we are trying to help in.

More bullshit. It’s well-known that 90% of the insurgency are home-grown Iraqis. Foreign fighters count for only 10% of the forces our boys and girls are out there being killed by.

If someone has the solution to complete the job, then present your plan

Nobody’s got a plan to do the impossible. It’s time to recognize that and save lives – leave.

Mark my words, pulling out with the job incomplete will only lead us to many more years of problems.

What problems? A Shitte Iraq will never be anything but a hostile place for Sunni terrorists.

“Bullshit it took 40 years to secure Germany. Germany was secured in a manner of months, and our remaining presence there was token – not an army of hundreds of thousands.”

So you’re saying that trusteeship appointed by the UN to oversee reconstruction and security never existed? We had an entire “army” in Germany for the majority of the period and a corps or division for the rest.

“We use those countries as staging areas and to maintain a worldwide presence, not because Korea, Japan, and Europe are territories under our occupation. And 100 soldiers a month aren’t dying in the streets of Japan. But, you know, don’t let reality stop you from making obtuse comparisons.”

To think for a moment that the US military presence in the “Pacific Rim” provides no security is a big misunderstanding of the region. We had the 8th Army in Korea up until the early 1990’s standing side-by-side with the RoK army on the DMZ… as a matter of fact, we still have 2d Inf Div still on the DMZ. You are correct that 100 people are not dying in those other areas monthly, but it is a different set of circumstances, cultures, and different diplomatic, political and military negotiations.

I speak on these matters as a matter of personal experiences… having spent the last few years out in the region and seeing the challenges first hand.

What people fail to realize is that Iraq is NOT the only place we have troops in the region, but the budget covers all of it, not just Iraq. So what will happen to the troops in UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Djibouti, or sailing the waters of the Persain Gulf, or Indian Ocean, all participating in efforts that affect each other and fight the Global Terrorism Campaign?

There are camps or you can call them villages really, that raise children to be American haters. Who are brain washed their entire lives to think that killing Americans will bring them the glory of God. This is what we must stop, these people don’t have “borders”. Fighting us in Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia is indifferent to attacking us in the US. With world-wide travel being so easy, all that they need is a little Al Quaida money to buy themselves a plane ticket.

US military personnel are trained against this, but the average American in the US… how will he recognize an IED in Seattle? How about a suicide bomber in Detroit? …or a VBIED at rush hour on the New Jersey Turnpike?

So you’re saying that trusteeship appointed by the UN to oversee reconstruction and security never existed?

I’m telling you we didn’t lose hundreds of GI’s a month in post-war Germany, and that the country was restored to an operational state in a matter of months – not 40 years. You’d have to be an idiot to assert that it took 40 years to rebuild Germany. Open a book sometime.

We had an entire “army” in Germany for the majority of the period and a corps or division for the rest.

Because of a little country called East Germany, run by Soviet Russia. Maybe you remember that little fact? Our military presence there had nothing to do with rebuilding Germany and everything to do with the proximity of Soviet forces.

We had the 8th Army in Korea up until the early 1990’s standing side-by-side with the RoK army on the DMZ…

But they weren’t rebuilding South Korea. They weren’t fighting insurgents in the streets of Seoul. It’s a specious comparison made by someone who obviously lacks a basic grasp of history.

You are correct that 100 people are not dying in those other areas monthly, but it is a different set of circumstances, cultures, and different diplomatic, political and military negotiations.

That’s the point – that’s why the comparison is specious and idiotic.

US military personnel are trained against this, but the average American in the US…

…has the home field advantage. We’re now at the point where the violence in Iraq has killed many, many more Americans than died on 9/11, with no end in sight save the Democrats. How much more evidence do you need that our “fight them there” strategy isn’t working?

And isn’t that basically shitting on the Iraqis? Do you think they’re interested in their country being the battlefield for the Global War on Terror? Sure, it’s better for my dog to shit in my neighbor’s lawn than on my own, but what do you think my neighbor thinks about that?