The American Mind

Hmmm.

That three note lead sounds awfully similar to Jeff Beck’s “Cause We Ended As Lovers” (Blow By Blow, 1975), which was actually written by Stevie Wonder.

I think the simple truth is, is that there isn’t a note or a progression of notes that hasn’t already been played by someone else (Perfect Example#1: Satriani’s “Belly Dancer”). If one took the time one could probably find the same disputed notes buried in some Classical CD set.

Those who tinker with music are always influenced, conscientiously or sub-conscientiously, by what was heard in the past. And any musician who writes who says he/she hasn’t pick-pocketed a run here, a progression there, is, quite frankly, a liar.

But it’s a matter of intent. Somehow, I can’t see Cold Play (~snore~) stealing an entire Satriani intentionally.

And no, I would not want to see them as temp couple. That’d be like “Kenny Rodgers Meets Rush”.

Egads.

But it’s a matter of intent.

Exactly. While your contention that “here isn’t a note or a progression of notes that hasn’t already been played by someone else” is 100% true, there can be similarities in guitar tone, the combination of progression with rhythm, vocal phrasing and lyrics, etc. that can make plagiarism more obvious. But it can be a pretty subjective judgment.

For example, the band Elastica got sued by Wire for plagiarism, and it was fairly believable because the songs sounded almost identical AND Wire has been often cited by Elastica as an influence. Whoops! Scott Weiland ripped off Girls Against Boys with his song “Cool Kiss” off his first solo album, which was a note-for-not (and nearly lyric for lyric!) rip of GVSB’s “Kiss Kiss.” I mean, could you at least try to be more subtle?

Coldplay and Satriani? Don’t care about either of them, so i’m not gonna listen to either. Heh.

The Blues ripped from the Spirituals.
The Blues ripped from each other endlessly.
Country/Folk/Rockers ripped from the Blues.
SRV ripped from Chuck Berry.
AC/DC rips from… AC/DC.

And on it goes.

>>>there can be similarities in guitar tone, the combination of progression with rhythm, vocal phrasing and lyrics, etc. that can make plagiarism more obvious.

fwiw, the opposite is true also: a diff tone and such can be used to mask the plagiarism.

>>>I mean, could you at least try to be more subtle?

Was it White Snake that tried to be the neo-Zepplin? If not note-for-note, at least in tone and theatrics? I just laughed at that.

And I despise “sampling”. It’s one thing to do a cover, but to incorporate a slice of someone else’s originality into your mish-mash of noise, to me, just comes off as being lazy-ass.

Anyway, can’t say I know Cold Play ‘cept for maybe a song or two (… by accident. I have this aversion to elevator music).

But as for Satriani, what I enjoy about his stuff is his foot work: he’s probably the best CryBaby manipulator I’ve ever heard. He over-uses the pedal, certainly, but the ever-so-slight real-time adjustments he pulls off really creates some sensational tonal results. In a way, it’s almost as if he uses the CryBaby as a separate instrument, not just an effect (if that makes any sense).

fwiw, the opposite is true also: a diff tone and such can be used to mask the plagiarism.

Definitely. AND, to make things even more convoluted, it’s totally acceptable (to me) to borrow something from another song as a reference to it, but to work it into your own composition (what up, Classical gas?) (as long as you give credit, which of course makes it not plagiarism).

Sampling is a tool like any other musical instrument…it can be used very sloppily (like when a rapper just throws their own beats over a complete song by someone else…snore), or very deftly and creatively (i didn’t really get the Beastie Boys or Public Enemy until i thought of their backing samples as audio collage…then it clicked for me). When you take a piece of “found sound” (even if it’s a piece of another song) and recontextualize it into something original, it can be a pretty amazing thing. But again, it’s a very tricky, grey, subjective thing.

Then you’ve got people like the Beasties playing their own instruments in the studio, but then sampling THOSE performances on the same album, etc. etc…the creativity can be awe-inspiring. Or it can be mind-numbingly lazy (like that Kid Rock song where he just raps over Metallica’s “Sad But True.” Wtf).

t’s almost as if he uses the CryBaby as a separate instrument, not just an effect (if that makes any sense).

It makes total sense. There are tons of artists out there that use effects pedals as musical instruments. Find yourself some Melt-Banana, a Japanese hardcore/noise-punk band, and the guitar effects work is mindblowing.

I tried, deej, I really really tried. But after several utoob and Melt-Banana Radio samples… I’m sorry, all I can say is …

I know you are into the very-alt stuff, and I by no means am dissing your personal tastes. Please just understand that I’m more into the melodic, the harmonic, and the storytelling. I can enjoy the wordless sadness Chopin presents as much as jigged chords of Alex Lifeson as much as the simple three-chord story of Cash’s ‘Folsom Prison Blues’.

But there is nothing in Melt-Banana, et. al., for me. It is as it is promoted: noise. I can’t get past the banging pots to clearly understand the guitar work because the guitar work is just another part of the banging pots, whatever electronics used or not.

My pleasure of music comes from being able to clearly pick out note progressions, be they from an instrument or a set of vocal chords.(Example: there was a lone french horn that began the original opening theme of ‘Star Trek Deep Space 9′. I swear, the beauty of the notes played by that horn almost brought tears to my eyes every time I heard it. Silly, I know, and I can’t even explain why that would be.) Further enjoyment, for me, then comes from how those notes are fitting with the other notes of the composition.

But stuff like Melt-Banana just sounds, to me, like the sound I hear when I’m dumping the inside recyclable trash can into the outside recyclable container.

I guess, just like our poli positions, in our music tastes…

You are here I’m over here.

At least we can agree: music moves us.